Showing posts with label naked. Show all posts
Showing posts with label naked. Show all posts

1st Post Australian Election Analysis - Censorship is DEAD!



I feel like the former Prime Minister, Paul Keating at the moment who held a grin and said something about winning being sweet after winning the election he should have lost because the then Opposition was so bad at campaigning, they turned people against them.

Well, the Australian Federal Election was held on Saturday, 21 August, 2010 where people had a choice of supporting a high taxing, high debt, high censorship driven Labor Party Government who labelled dissenters as being pedophiles or, the Liberal/National Coalition who were against all of above yet are against having an internet that meets the 21st Century.

Now there is no single political party including the Coalition Parties who can form Government in their own right and they must seek to negotiate with Independents and the Greens Party. Ooh, this feels so good and I wish I could see them begging like dogs for the ball to be thrown to them before the other dogs.

With the Greens Party holding the balance of power in the Senate who spoke against internet censorship, with  4 or 5 Independents along with a single Greens Party member holding the balance of power in the House of Representatives(where Government is formed), this motivation to control the content seen on the internet has to have died. I can't see it walking now. I hope I am not jumping the gun but I do believe that this internet control is now dead. I can't see it surviving.

For now at least, I don't fear losing access to naturist sites. I don't have to see access to any website denied because of words like; sex, breast, penis - are excluded. Webpages on breast cancer or sites on puberty won't be blocked by this unwanted filter now. The push to control art will severely hamstrung now too. Life is good.

This is so bloody fantastic. Internet Fascism is DEAD DEAD DEAD!


I Had A Dream



I had a dream.  It was a wonderful dream and one that would make an interesting yet positive change in my own personal biased point of view.

There I was, standing at the the counter of a petrol(gas) station paying for my car's petrol. There I was, standing completely naked enjoying the new laws which allowed people go out in public anywhere without having to wear clothes as long as certain behavioural actions were not included.

And I was loving it as I felt happy and free. Free to be who I am without having to hide behind the screen of cottons.

Yet it was only a dream and I went for a drive today to vote and I was hiding within my cottons. It was an excellent dream though.

Keppel Sands

I felt like going on a solo drive this morning so all by myself, I shuffled to the car not knowing where I was going. First off, I headed over to the Rockhampton Showgrounds to see if the Rocky Swap was only on Saturday and yes, it was. I miss it every single year. Then it was over to the dump for the recycling shop only to arrive and find that I forgot to bring my enclosed shoes which you need to walk inside.

So it was off for a drive but where?

I drove off towards Emu Park and found myself quickly deciding to turn left down a road I have not been before to find myself at Keppel Sands. A nice little town that couldn't have any more than 'approx' 500 people. 2006 Census says just over 300 and there's really not been any housing developments to expland the place. There is National Park adjacent so where would you put the homes? And they'd flood too easily anyway as it looks like wetlands.

I parked the car one side of the beach and walked across the sand bar to the right side of the beach pictured above. There were rocks of all sizes from ones you step, rocks you step around, rocks your climb over and sit on and those too big unless you're rather athletic and have rock spider capabilities - which I don't.



I found a spot far away from the view of general society despite there barely being anyone at all and sat, explored a couple of the rock pools without going in too far due to a recent operation on my thigh so must keep wound dry(Grrr)


It was a nice and relaxing time in the sun, the ocean breeze on the bare wombat skin and the craving to fully immerse myself in the rock pool pictured above. Just sit down in the water and relax. Will have to do so once the wound is ready to soak.

I looked through the rock pools be they tiny, small or this above for gorgeous yet uncuddly critters such as the Blue Ringed Octopus. If you see one, you'll know that you just want to touch them but if you do, expect a heart attack in the very near future.

As I walked back to where my clothes were getting a reprieve from my body, I was spotted by a small group of people; 2 men, 1 woman, 1 teenage male and young boy. One fella let out a laugh of surprise and shock yet they obviously didn't care as they set up their chairs only about 30 to 50 metres away from me and cast their rods. The view between us was not blocked and they didn't look over but enjoyed their rod and reel and each others company.



So I laid on the rock and got some rays before donning on the cottons and slowly walked across the sand bar towards the car where I came across small sea snails and a small hermit crab. The ripples along the sand bar can by rather hypnotic.

I found a nice spot to bring my 8" djembe. Sit in the shade and play, connect, trance work, etc. Beautiful.

I'll be back and I'll bring the kids. Here's where I'd love to own a car that can carry all 6 of us instead of being one seat short all the time. Either the missus or the eldest child, a teenager, has to miss out. So if you have a van that has a good body but needs a little mechanical work and you can get it to Rockhampton, there's space for it here.

The beach at Keppel Sands has no surf making it a good place to take little children as you don't have to grip onto them for dear life. Nice and relaxing. Beautiful.



Naked BBQ Chefs



Family time is bonding time and one of the best way to form a bond with your children is to cook with them. Tonight was BBQ dinner time and on the barbie were snags(sausages) and onion.


My daughter loves cooking with the BBQ and was very quick to grab the BBQ dinner night. Turn turn turn go the snags and soon came the eye wringers(onions). What a yummy dinner my daughter fired up. Everybody eagerly ate their yummy dinner. 

Snag?

Occasionally there are times for distractions and when the meat is happily cooking away on their own without needing to be watched constantly, well there's the distraction of the bicycle that needs two new tyres before the new tubes are added. They tyres are too worn to make it worthwhile to add the new tubes now. Far too easy for objects to puncture her tyres.

My bike!

Australian Federal Election 21 August 2010



I am sitting here relaxing with a glass of water after a workout on the Wii Fit Plus. Naked of course. So much easier without dreaded clothing getting in the way of the body and then it dawned on me, the negativity of a Federal Election in Australia. A choice between unrepresentative political parties who, like children with ADHD, beg for your attention and tend to break the furniture in the process.

This blog is not meant to bash you, my dear readers, with political junk however, this is a serious matter for us who prefer to live life without having to hide behind the cottons to feel secure. But we have two people begging to be the Prime Minister after 21 August; Julia Gillard of the Labor Party and, Tony Abbott of the Liberal Party.

Julia Gillard is the incumbent Prime Minister despite never asking people to vote for her as the PM. No, Rudd got the machete in the back after making a promise to resign by October if the polls were still that bad. An atheist, Julia Gillard leads the Labor Party who are highly dominated by the fundamentalist Christian Lobby Group who seek to have the say in what we the people can and cannot view. Yes, we are little children who can't decide for ourselves. They are seeking to fully control the internet. Not only restrict access but to monitor our usage and keep records of our emails. Welcome to New Australia, the new Fascist State.

On other side is the Liberal Party. I really don't know where they stand because they refuse to make any comments. This has me concerned that they really do support such a level of intrusion into our private lives by power mad politicians.



Both sides complain about government controlling the art world. Do you want to see politicians deciding what is and is not art?

This is a form of dissent as well and to have politicians controlling what can and can't be done as art is fascism.

So where does one go from there?

In the Senate, I ask you to consider voting for the Australian Sex Party. They aren't pushing naturism but they aren't against it either. They aren't for telling us what we can and can't do in our own personal time. They respect our right to be truly free and decide for ourselves. And no, I am not a member of the Australian Sex Party.

In times where we are at risk of losing our beaches under the lie of child protection, the lie pushed by politicians who refuse to keep a pedophile in prison, we must vote accordingly and I believe, a vote to the Australian Sex Party is a necessity.

Not Much Doing

I do believe that here in the tropical line of Capricornia the weather has got as cool as it is going to get. Rockhampton is not really a cold place but it does get stinking hot. The lump of earth known as Mount Archer blocks the wind from the coast from cooling Rockhampton down during the blazing tropical heat.

Our alleged 'winter' is typically only lasts a long one week or a two if it's long. Our evenings are not chilly now but the mornings tend to be with the early morning fog. The fog can make the streets look spooky here as the street lights make the mist glow.

Over the past few weeks, not a lot has been happening up here but we have had a fellow naturist drop in for a visit. Dave, on his stay away from Brisbane while on business tripping, gave us the pleasure of his company on both his trips. Amazingly, on both days where Dave flew up, our weather got cold. Is he bringing up the weather for us? LOL

Well, the second catch up was a pizza night but it was a bit cold for naked pizza night. Kinda makes me feel like a total wimp when there are people living in northern Europe who hang about naked during their freezing winters but they do have open saunas and spas. Sounds like the life.

As the weather starts to warm up which you can tell by the difference of the sun in the day air, the want to start heading back out to the beach sounds like a must do activity. Back to the beach and in for a hop. If only we had beaches in Queensland where you can swim in our natural clothing.

ASK AN ACADEMIC: IN THE BUFF

My wife found this website today which has a blurb about a book written by an Academic on being naked hence the book being titled; Nakedness.




"Nudity is our most basic state, yet there are few things that cause the same extreme mixture of titillation and horror. Still, if one looks closely, it’s everywhere. Mass nude weddings with as many as sixty couples take place every year at the Hedonism resort in Jamaica. There’s nude sky diving and nude boxing (so-called “bouncy boxing”) in Australia, nude skiers in Austria (brr), nude synchronized swimming in Spain, strip poker, naked flights (no hot drinks are served, to prevent scalding), organized nudism, anarchic streaking, Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl. Why does donning the birthday suit get us in such a tizzy? I recently wrote to Philip Carr-Gomm, a psychotherapist, writer, and author of “A Brief History of Nakedness,” to ask his opinion."






This book continues by relating to the history of being naked such the Druids who are one of hundreds of cultures who have being unclothed as part of ritual of some kind;


"In Wicca, and to a lesser extent in Druidism, worshiping "skyclad" (i.e. clothed only with the sky) is used as a way of getting closer to Nature and to Deity. One might think that conventional religion, in contrast to these modern pagan approaches, would shun nakedness. But in reality there are numerous examples of religious leaders using nakedness to engender mystical states or get closer to God. The first third of my book focusses on this largely unknown history: looking in particular at the way nakedness has been used not only in classical Paganism and its modern revivals, but also in Hinduism, Jainism, and most remarkable of all, Christianity. I finish this part of the book with a quotation from Dolly Parton which nicely unites Pantheistic and Christian themes: “Sometimes I like to run naked in the moonlight and the wind, on a little trail behind our house, when the honeysuckle blooms. It's a feeling of freedom, so close to God and nature.”


Yet why are we so paranoid and fearful of wearing no clothes?


This book, 'Nakedness' is a book that looks very interesting to read as it sets out to explore and tackle these questions. Both my wife and I are interested in getting a copy of this book. Looks like it could be a winner.

Been Busy




G'day everyone.


Looks like it has been just over a month since I last posted anything though I have been busy and distracted. The weather is cooling down in the nights and the early mornings. I come out to the loungeroom this morning to see all but the eldest child wearing clothes to keep warm. The eldest, well, she sat there reading her book unclothed feeling better without the wearing of cottons but she snuggled in quickly to warm up once I sat down.


Not a lot has been happening. The usual day to day routines I'm afraid.


My other activities are related to my involvement with Toastmasters International. I am currently the President of my club. The term ends at the end of June so I am tying up loose ends so that the incoming club executive isn't left with unnecessary unfinished business.


I went away for the Labour Day long weekend, the first weekend of May. There was a Toastmasters District Convention at Caloundra which is situated on the Sunshine Coast above the Greater Brisbane region. Say, a couple hours drive north of Brisbane.


At first I thought I was going to be staying in my kids tent, pitched in somebody's backyard but at the end of the week, I was offered a room in a unit/flat by another Toastmasters member. I took up the offer which was a Penthouse with panoramic views of the ocean, valley and the Glasshouse Mountains. It was fantastic, helped by having excellent hosts who I must say, spoilt me.


With my Toastmasters involvement, the end of June will see the end of my term as a Club President but the beginning of July will see me as the 2010-2011 Area 4 Governor. You see, the clubs come together to form an Area. Areas form a Division. Divisions form a District. Districts form a Region. Regions form International(the World).


This will see me travel a little bit around this region here and outside it a little. There are few naturist venues here. Well, they never seem to be where I want them to be. I like socialising with my fellow Toastmasterians(sic), but I would like to meet up with other naturists as well. But as people grow more fearful and paranoid of being viewed as a sex offender as we grow ever fearful of our bodies yet endorse photos of young teens in sexual poses, it appears that meeting up with others outside of an exclusive club is getting harder and harder.


Enjoy yourselves and stay naked!

Reaffirmation of Family Naturism



There are times when we receive a confirmation that something you doing is the correct way to go. Sometimes when we most need them, at time other times because they are. I guess that we do need them when they come even if we do not believe we do for they come in handy later on.


My eldest child started high school this year. She is learning once again about how much society's ways of viewing the most natural of things as bad, as something to be ashamed of.


Today, she tells us that when the girls get changed before or after swimming, every single girl hides in the shower or toilet to get changed. They see my daughter getting changed in the changing area. It takes having to get fully naked to get ready for the pool or to dry up and dressed ready for regular classroom work.


"Ewww, that's disgusting", they say, "get changed in the toilet or the shower".


One knows that society has failed the youth when the idea of two girls seeing each other naked while getting changed as filthy. With all the sexualisation of children where you can get sexy string underwear for 4 year olds, dress your 6 year old girls in skirts so high cut that just leaning over shows her vagina in a seductive manner, and all this is not receiving the anger that it should, society instead victimises the concept of getting naked to get ready for the pool or to dry and ready for the classroom.


The fact that my 12 year old daughter can shamelessly undress in front of other girls her age as naturally as breathing and eating reaffirms to me that raising our children in a household that is not only clothing optional but a household where the body is natural, as part of nature as the working ant and the flower growing in the backyard, reaffirms to me that this lifestyle is the right choice.


They get to decide if they wear clothes or spend the day naked. It is their body. Surely that it is their decision whether they wear clothes or not? Surely it is right to teach children that the developing body during puberty is as natural as drinking water to survive?


Teach your children about sex. Not like they do at school but in that they learn what the body is doing and why. Let them know that girls have wider hips to carry babies and that they do naturally carry more natural body fat around the hips and thighs for child bearing. It is nothing to be ashamed about. The body, especially the developing body is to be celebrated including having the girl, now a young woman having her first menstruation cycle have a celebration to recognise that she is no longer a little child but a growing young woman. A beautiful woman at that. Have the boys out with men to celebrate manhood.


Celebrate life naturally and remember to live naked.

Beach Day Out




Yesterday I took my children for a drive to the beach around lunch time. After choosing the beach, we ate our lunch then left the kids to play with the sand and their buckets as I took photos of them. They remained dressed in the sun while waiting for the time to come and hop in the crashing waves where the ocean meets the land.

When it was almost time to relax in the surf, it was home school lesson time where I showed them how the water moves up the ground only to go back underneath the incoming waves, calling it an undertow and that it is dangerous when the undertow is strong with the ability to pull you down under the water surface and drown you. They learned about how the high tide brings with sea life, leaving remnants behind such as empty shells and seaweed. They were shown how to tell where the tide comes up to. It is important that the children learn that we are all part of the environment, not above it.

When the home schooling lesson was finished, swim time was announced and off came their clothes.




Being a naturist and going skinny dipping does not mean that one should risk sun burn equally as much as those who wear their swimmers. After all, what we wear in water only covers a small amount of our bodies. Sunscreen is also important so don't neglect it or, if you forget the sunscreen like we did, only have a short amount of time in the water.

My youngest two currently aged 6 and 5 years old, were introduced to swimming naked. We have had no real access to swimming for several years so this was basically a first of them away from the odd public swimming pool where the wearing of bathers is required.

Going out to the waves and experiencing the crash of water as it pushed its way past us was a lot of fun for the kids and a lot of fun for me as their father. My eldest two currently aged 12 and 8 years old have had several chances to swim in the beach. My second eldest enjoyed her first skinny dip at an Inlet at the Gold Coast, Queensland. I found it very interesting and excellent that within 10 minutes of my daughter started swimming naked, then aged 7 years old, a small handful of parents undressed their children so they too could swim naked. Every single one of them looking happier for it while their were heard to saying how they wish they could hop in naked too.

Back to yesterday, the surf was perfect for young children as the waves were continuous yet not over powering. Important for children not use to the surf. They had a lot of fun swimming minus their clothes and can't wait to go back for their turn of skinny dipping.

Seriously, why wear those anchors round your body when you can swim naturally without the worry of your swimmers coming off in the water or having to suit the material. Your body suits you. It's natural. Love it!




A Clothing Optional School



It is so natural for children to enjoy living life without clothes on. It is only when we as adults decide that children at a certain should never see a naked form or be seen naked because it involves sex. This is a sad way to view life where sex is corrupt and that naked can only lead to sex and surely, if looking at a naked body only brings thoughts of sex to your mind, then one seriously needs help.


When children are allowed to continue to own the decision making process of whether to wear clothes or not, most will prefer to stay naked, wearing clothing only when they feel like it. Allowing children to own this decision making process over their self creates an ownership of their self. They learn that it is their body, not the churches or the politicians or some other group with a vested interest. It is theirs.


So what happens when your children live in a clothing optional household and are home schooled?


Home schooling saves on the expense of buying school uniforms for one and staying home for your schooling provides children with the ability to determine if they are dressed or not, the choice to learn clothed or unclothed. Unless you're visiting somewhere such as the Botanical Gardens or somewhere else public, there is no requirement for them to dress should they so wish.


Today, our three home schooled children had a science experiment where they looked at liquid/solid - expansion due to heat. Their experiment was to make and bake cup cakes which also provided the chance to fit in maths - measurements and counting. Language also was included where our eight year old daughter read out aloud the directions for making the cup cakes.


All that mess made by cooking such as the egg splattered child or the chocolate coated children from the mixture. Now imagine were they wearing clothes? All that extra washing to do with the hope that the chocolate does not stain their clothing. No, only a wipe down is all it takes to clean our natural clothing - skin.


The cup cakes were yummy by the way.

Australia - Next Stop, Fascism!

When I created 'Diary of a Naked Wombat', I did so wanting a naturist blog that was not only family friendly but easy and relaxing to read. Sadly, there are times when this naked wombat must make the occasional political post due to the small minded way of our politicians.


I came across a news article today on www.news.com.au about moves by the State Labor New South Wales(NSW) Government to start controlling art content and removing elements of the judicial system which allows for a fair trial. In this case, child sex laws.


I shall break up elements of the article here with responses which must make all of us not only concerned, these proposed changes should make us very scared.

Article - 'Artists told: prove it's not porn'


"PAINTERS and photographers will no longer be able to rely on a defence of artistic merit defence under an overhaul of child pornography laws."


Politicians, police and judges will be deciding what is and is not art. Do you want to see politicians deciding what we as people, define at being art? They claim it is child pornography driven yet this is the same argument for Internet Censorship which will filter every website with words including sex, breast, penis, orgasm, etc. How many websites for Sex Education, medical information, student research, etc will be blocked for being evil material?


One must ask just how much art will be banned as many forms of artwork including medieval Christian art has the naked form such as on the Cathredal at Notre Dame, France. Then are artworks by artists such as, Anne Geddes who has always used images of naked children.



Photo Artwork by, Anne Geddes




Then there is, May Gibbs, an infamous Australian artist, born in Surrey(UK) who used naked children in her artwork as well.






Above two artwork by, May Gibbs





"Mr Hatzistergos said the proposed laws would cover the production, distribution and possession of child pornography.
"The fact that it is art cannot be used as a defence. The report recommends that once such material has been found to be unlawfully pornographic, whether or not it is intended to be art is irrelevant," he said."
An admittance that this is not about artwork but stopping all mediums of nudity beginning with children where opposers to will be labelled as pedophiles just as the Rudd Government labels those who are against internet censorship as pedophiles. Yes, your baby photos will need to be fully dressed.
"The working party, headed by District Court judge Peter Berman, also examined the use of photographs depicting nudity in a news context.
"Mr Hatzistergos said the new laws would ensure the rights of photographers to publish pictures - such as the iconic Vietnam war photograph of a nine-year-old girl running naked on a street after being burned by napalm - would not be infringed."
So, it is alright to show on tv, bodies that have been freshly burnt, their naked twisted bodies on your tv during dinner time via the news but the sight of a natural naked body is clearly an act of pedophilia. Is it just me, or is Australia being run by some very sick and twisted people?

Government Approves the above image!

Government declares this photos to be of concern for pedophilia
"The Government will seek feedback from victims' groups..."
Organisations including, 'Bravehearts' run by angry zealots like Hetty Johnson who parades the sexual assault of her daughter like some flag to push her cause has the ear of government. Hetty Johnson has publicly pushed for the system where government issues licences to be an artist and that government decides what is and isn't art.

The twisted zealot, Hetty Johnson.
And now, read the final part of this news article carefully;



"The report also recommends the introduction of laws making it easier for police to investigate child pornography and for juries and court staff to participate in trials for these offences. This suggestion follows concern within the legal fraternity of the impact that the viewing of child pornography evidence has on jury members, many of whom find the process distressing.
"The working party has recommended the law be changed so jury members, prosecutors and court staff are able to view only a sample of images during the trial process."
In a move to abolish the concept of a 'Fair Trial', the above states that the prosecution could make any allegation they like against the Accused without having to demonstrate their evidence to back their claims on the lie of, "It might make some on the Jury cry".
I have sat on two juries, both of them being charges on Child Related sex crimes. The second trial was ruled a mistrial due to a police officers making a serious judgement of error, the first saw the Jury return a verdict of 'Not Guilty' on every count as the evidence presented by the Prosecution, did not back up their claims. In fact, their evidence contradicted the Prosecutions claims.
Call me paranoid if you wish but I see here an opportunity for the prosecution, especially when politicians seek to scape goat someone, to run a Kangaroo Court where the Accused has not got a hope in hell of having a fair trial with allegations being denied true justice by not allowing the Defense Council from challenging and the Jury from viewing the evidence.
My oh my, what will Australia be doing next?



1st Post for 2010




Welcome to the year, 2010. I hope that your new year's celebrations went well for you and more so if you entered 2010 naked.

I took my 8 year old daughter up to Mount Archer to the lookout, giving a sparkling view of Rockhampton. A young family with 4 children with them. While it was a shame in that I was hoping to strip off and enjoy the very first seconds naked, it was good to have the other family there because they were friendly people and made the time spend there, entertaining family.

We were the last people remaining there in the end. The natural stroll along the moon lit track was relaxing.

Enjoy your 2010 and hope everything goes well for everyone. May the world lose their clothes and live life naturally.





Rain Play



It is currently raining outside as the wet season starts to move. It's late but better late than never and what could be better than sending your children outside to play in the rain?

Our children enjoy playing outside in the rain and they love playing in the rain while naked. It is easier for them to run and splash around without the confines of rain soaked cottons weighing their bodies down. Naked rain play is so much healthier than getting soaked clothes as clothing holds all the moisture and the coldness to your body. Not good when this cold is being held to your chest so take off that clothing and allow the water to run down your body, instead of holding it to your body.

Jumping in puddles, swimming, running in the rain is always best when done naked so take off that restrictive clothing and remember, don't limit this fun to the children.


Australian Naturists At Risk of being Censored by Australian Government




The Rudd Labor Government has announced that they will going ahead with their Nanny State internet censorship from next year, 2010. This 'Clean Feed' Internet Censorship is a work in partnership between the Australian Government and the Christian Lobby who are the only people to have received the results of the censorship trial.


This censorship is said to act against child pornography. Those who know such as the police disagree, saying that online pedophiles use 'file sharing' and other techniques which cannot be stopped by this censorship. So why go ahead with this censorship when all the experts say that it won't work?


Fascism. Yes, fascism is the reason as the Australian Labor Government seeks to control all forms of dissent against him and his government. Prime Minister Rudd has already banned all forms of dissenting information coming from the offices of federal Parliamentarians, using the power held by government with government funding. Any criticism of the Rudd Government must be positive.







This act of fascism dictates that internet providers must block access to any website deemed as unfit by a government department who issue a list which is not allowed to be known by the people. To notify anybody of this list will lead to a fine and/or conviction. If released on a website, the website is then black listed. If you wish to view adult sites to view adult content, you will have to write to ask permission to view it. Hmm, asking the government for permission to view a legal website.


Other websites that would fall into the blacklist category would include anything that falls into the search engine tags such as; naked, nude and nudist. This is surely going to have webpages such this one or any other naturist page banned from the eyes of Australians because the Australian Government and the Christian Lobby knows best. Will they block any site on safe sex, abortion, political dissent? It is highly believed that the answer is yes for those who are not computer literate, leaving children, the most computer savvy, unable to be blocked from these 'evil' websites.


Images this are highly likely to be banned for the eyes of those in Australia.




How can you dissent?

The Pirate Party
The Greens Party
Prime Minister of Australia
Leader of the Federal Opposition
Leader of the National Party
Nationals Leader of the Senate

Shadow Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy

Senator Xenophon
United Nations for breaching: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Articles 2, 18, 19 & 20.